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Podcast S20E04

Decarbonising homes and the role of one-stop-shops

Home concept

As heat pumps, solar panels (often with batteries), and EV chargers sales grow, we’re seeing the emergence of ‘one-stop shops’ providing customers with a portfolio of low carbon products and services for their homes. In this episode, Jon and Sandra, explore the rise of one-stop shops with Leonardo Melo, Business Developer/Product Specialist at Samsung Electronics Air Conditioner Europe and Klara Ottosson, Heating Business Research Manager at LCP Delta.

Episode transcript

[00:00:04.490] - Jon Slowe

Welcome to Talking New Energy, a podcast from LCP Delta. I'm Jon Slowe.

 

[00:00:09.290] - Sandra Trittin

And I'm Sandra Trittin. And together we are exploring how the energy transition is unfolding across Europe through conversations with guests from the leading edge of the transition.

 

[00:00:19.010] - Jon Slowe

Hello and welcome to the episode. Sandra, we've talked about your heat pump. I haven't asked you, have you got solar panels, battery? Well, I know you've got an EV charger because you were off to get your new electric vehicle the other day.

 

[00:00:34.700] - Sandra Trittin

Yes, actually. So finally, we have the charger. We also have the car that arrived and yeah, for sure. Now the question comes if we should also have PV on the roof, which is on our side, a bit more of a sizing question, and if it's worth it in terms of production capacity. But yeah, the question comes, and I think in the end we will go for it. But now the big question will be on how to align all the different systems with each other right. And how to integrate them and not ending up with like five different apps on your phone that you need to optimise and to check and monitor. How about you?

 

[00:01:18.540] - Jon Slowe

I'm in that situation. I've got EV charger. I've got my hybrid heat pump, solar on my roof, don't have a battery because when I put solar in, it was, I don't think, really worth it and very expensive. But I don't yet have my smart metre working. I've got a smart metre. It's not communicating. So, I'm definitely not at the stage where it's all integrated. But I think today I'm really interested in the conversation we've got lined up because more and more people are going to do. What you and I have done is have heat pumps, EV chargers, solar panels, batteries, air conditioners, other things in their homes. And we talk a lot in the electricity sector about electrification, but probably very guilty of not thinking in a very customer-centric way about how customers are going to buy these devices.

 

[00:02:14.130] - Sandra Trittin

Yeah. And I think there are different options, right? That you see at the moment on the market or two different streams that are rising. So, one stream is that one-stop-shop where a customer can get everything out of one hand. But then you are a bit, let's say, bounded in that ecosystem, or you do it the way that we both did it, right. You go step-by-step, but then you still have the challenge on how you bring everything together and working together. So that will be interesting to explore. Right?

 

[00:02:45.490] - Jon Slowe

Yeah, and the one-stop-shop could mean buying everything at once. Or it could mean buying it bit-by-bit, but from the same place. Well, shall we get into the discussion and introduce our guests?

 

[00:02:57.060] - Sandra Trittin

Yes. So today we have two guests, and I would like to introduce Leonardo Melo. He's working in the B2B (Business-to-Business) development with Samsung. So welcome, Leonardo, and would be great if you could give us a quick elevator pitch of what you're doing exactly at Samsung.

 

[00:03:14.820] - Leonardo Melo

Yes. Hi, guys. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here after listening to the podcast for so many times. So, I work at Samsung Electronics Air Conditioner Europe. That's the, let's say, European headquarters of the HVAC operations in Europe. And there I work in the business development team. And in our team, we focus on an array of, let's say, activities that range from developing partnerships to developing new business opportunities across verticals to expand our footprint of course. And I particularly am very interested in the energy transition and everything pertaining to IoT (Internet of Things). And therefore, I take a very strong focus in my job in the topics that we're going to talk about today. Integrating SMA (Separately Managed Accounts) within our portfolio, integrating other partners, and how can we leverage more value for our end-users, which are buying our products and want to save energy of course.

 

[00:04:18.150] - Sandra Trittin

Great to have you here.

 

[00:04:19.680] - Jon Slowe

Our second guest is Klara Ottosson, a colleague and LCP Delta expert with a focus on the propositions in the heating market. Hello, Klara.

 

[00:04:29.420] - Klara Ottosson

Hi, guys. How are you doing?

 

[00:04:31.060] - Jon Slowe

Klara, can we start with your take on one-stop-shops? One-stop-shops are sort of easy words, but how do you describe exactly what is a one-stop-shop? Or how break that down a bit when it comes to one-stop-shops and decarbonising homes?

 

[00:04:47.450] - Klara Ottosson

Yeah. So, like you said, easy words. Maybe not as easy of a definition. We see one-stop-shop being kind of different types of companies, not just one type, not just energy retailers or just specialists, but the two things that they have in common is that, first of all, they provide a wide range of different energy technologies, often including heat pumps or another heating appliance. Solar panels, battery, home energy management (HEM) systems and EV chargers are kind of the standard ones. The second thing is that the one-stop-shop assures that all of the components that they sell, whether that's to a wholesaler or an installer or directly to the customer, are compatible with each other and therefore guaranteeing interoperability between these products.

 

[00:05:31.560] - Jon Slowe

Okay, you got a couple of examples to bring it to life for our listeners.

 

[00:05:35.330] - Klara Ottosson

Yes, definitely. So, of course, energy retailers are increasingly becoming one-stop-shops. Companies like Eon, Octopus are just a few examples. But then we also have kind of the big HVAC heating manufacturers like Viessmann and Vaillant who basically have almost all of these technologies in-house. And then also of course manufacturers like Samsung who are partnering with manufacturers of PV technologies or other technologies as so.

 

[00:06:06.340] - Sandra Trittin

But then Leonardo, how do you see it from your personal perspective? Right? Are the one-stop-shops the future or are there different ways on how the consumer will end up with all the equipment in the home?

 

[00:06:21.230] - Leonardo Melo

Good question, Sandra. Well, I think one-stop-shops are definitely something that came to overcome some market failures, right? Because as we need to install more and more heat pumps with the current installer network that exists in Europe, it's going to be very hard to achieve this, right? So, I think the beauty of one-stop-shops at the moment is being able to also bring installers from different specialties into the, I would call into the home energy systems and by then making it accessible for more people to have heat pumps. Me of course, talking from the perspective of heat pumps, I see it as a very good way to also increase the channels in our case for an OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) manufacturer because these companies bring a lot of innovation into the market. So, if you see, for example, in the case of 1KOMMA5°, I would say they empower installers, right? Because if you talk to installers across Europe, most of the installers lack a lot of marketing skills or the skills that they need to approach customers in a more modern way, right? So nowadays everyone's focused on internet, going on Google, searching for things and it's very hard to find talking from my personal experience in the Netherlands also, it is not easy to find a huge pool of installers when you need some product, right?

 

[00:07:54.170] - Leonardo Melo

So I think it is natural that this happens and this happened in other sectors. Like if you think about car mechanics, for example, if I compare my home country, Portugal, where we have a lot of car mechanics everywhere, and if I compare to the Netherlands where you have a much more consolidated offer with bigger companies acquiring smaller players. I've seen it also in Switzerland when I worked in district heating, there was a lot of heating installers and there's phases in the market where consolidation happens. So installers move upwards into bigger organisations. And I think that if the bigger organisation is giving them the support they need to carry on their business and to focus on their specialty. Yeah, I think that this is great, obviously, and for us as a company, if I would say it is very interesting because these are new channels that people are putting together in a very innovative way. So, I think we have to explore this. So yeah, we are of course, I think everyone in the HVAC industry and more focus on heat pumps. Everyone's very happy that these type of business models are emerging and being extremely successful. So, they do come for a reason and in a very timely way.

 

[00:09:02.410] - Leonardo Melo

 

 

[00:09:07.410] - Jon Slowe

What you're saying about installers is interesting, Leonardo, because we've talked on the podcast before about the challenge of there not being enough installers for the energy transition across Europe and one-stop-shops. As you were talking, it made me think that one-stop-shops are really going to help to drive more efficiency in the installer market, because installers can then, if they're part of a bigger organisation or bigger ecosystem, can really focus on the specific skills that they bring that others can't bring. I'm interested what you all think about that efficiency angle for installers as the benefit of one-stop-shops.

 

[00:09:49.330] - Leonardo Melo

Well, I can tell you that as a manufacturer, and if you see the current landscape of product development, and also with the current FGAS revision, that has pushed manufacturers to release heat pumps on R 290, so on propane, what you see is because of that, the market is in a very large scale, moving towards monosystems. So monosystems are the ones where water is coming out of the outer unit. With that, you already enlarge the scope of installers that can instal your product. So, whereas in the past you needed to have an FGA certificate to handle these types of gases that were in more conventional heat pumps or aircosystems, now you already expand your pool of installation experts to the ones that were dealing with plumbing. So now plumbers can also instal heat pumps. And I think that the value of the one-stop-shop is because they are more focused on PV and battery more how to say electricity experts, by training them. So, to upskill this labour force into also being able to do the hydraulic part of an energy ecosystem at a customer's home, then this 500 to 750,000 installers that we're missing in Europe, as was pointed two weeks ago in a JRC report, then we're sure that with this we go a step towards in a good direction.

 

[00:11:17.530] - Leonardo Melo

I don't know if this is going to be enough or not, because there's a lot of PV installers across Europe that from our discussions, they are very interested in learning about the plumbing aspects or enlarging their pool of skills to also do plumbing when they visit a customer. By combining things, you also tend to cut costs, right? So, if you have the same expert doing two specialties in one, go in two or three days, then I think it's best for the end-user. I'm always happy when the end-user is benefiting from these types of innovations. And the goal I think we should all have is to drive down costs and increase adoption. I think that's my mantra, at least when I try to make my work.

 

[00:12:05.400] - Jon Slowe

Okay, so we've got the benefit from the installation angle. Let's look at it from the customer perspective. Klara, interested on your thinking on customers? Sandra and I both went down the buy things bit-by-bit, from different installers, different manufacturers, different vendors. But yeah, what's your thinking on how one-stop-shops help customers?

 

[00:12:26.800] - Klara Ottosson

So, yeah, I think there are two main benefits. The first one being that you both had, I guess, fairly complicated customer journeys. You had to do quite a lot of research to find the best, I'm just guessing here to find the best kind of companies to instal that for you. And you were fine to do that because you're interested and you're engaged with your energy, I'd say a large share of the population is not. So to just make the customer journey as easy for the customer as possible, having that one point of contact for them that they can return to when either they have an issue with the appliance that they installed, whether that's PV or heat pump or whatever they start with, but then also that after a few years down the line, when they're like, oh, yeah, I'm really happy with my heat pump or my PV system, what else could I get? They return to that first company because their assuming they've had a good customer experience, that there's quite a big requirement for that company to really put a lot of effort into providing a good customer experience, because otherwise, of course, they won't return.

 

[00:13:29.780] - Klara Ottosson

So, the customer journey is the first one and the second one we've already touched upon. So, the interoperability of the assets, like Sandra also mentioned at the beginning, once you have all these, let's say three, four, five different assets in the home, making sure that they all communicate that they can be optimised, that you're getting your most energy efficient consumption, and use that you don't need to have five apps to control everything. That's another thing that I think is really important that one-stop-shops can add. So not only making the customer journey to getting the appliance in the home easy, but then once it's there, it should be not complicated as well.

 

[00:14:08.960] - Sandra Trittin

But then it would also mean, as a customer, I never can step out of it. Right. Would you see that? Right, once I want to have an appliance added which might not be available in the ecosystem. I have no chance to get that in there, I assume.

 

[00:14:25.020] - Klara Ottosson

I mean, it's a good point, but I think there's a wider point about interoperability as well, that not only within the system, but manufacturers. And I'm sure Leonardo can add some on this as well but try and be interoperable with different providers to allow that flexibility. But then, of course, I think it creates a kind of symbiotic relationship between the provider and the customer. So, the provider has to do everything that they can to make the customer journey so great that it's a no brainer for the customer to stay with them rather than leave. So, there's more of course, I forget the word now.

 

[00:14:58.670] - Jon Slowe

So, it's not a lock-in, it's the customer choosing to continue their relationship.

 

[00:15:03.170] - Klara Ottosson

Yes, exactly.

 

[00:15:05.090] - Sandra Trittin

Okay.

 

[00:15:05.750] - Klara Ottosson

I guess it would only be a lock-in if there's a contract involved, like if there's a kind of finance or as-a-Service contract. But I think that's still to come.

 

[00:15:13.490] - Jon Slowe

Down the line, or it could never work with another product. So, you can only choose from a very tight ecosystem of products.

 

[00:15:20.900] - Sandra Trittin

Yeah.

 

[00:15:21.830] - Leonardo Melo

And in some offerings, you do see now that there is leasing forms emerging. Right. And sorry, my cat made a visit.

 

[00:15:29.780] - Jon Slowe

Welcome to the podcast, Leonardo's Cat.

 

[00:15:32.730] - Leonardo Melo

What do you think? I think leasing is extremely interesting. So, heat as a service, or let's say this energy efficiency kind of as-a-Service, right. Putting everything together, bundling, making sure everything talks, and giving you one single invoice at the end of the month. That's quite attractive, but. Yeah, indeed. Then you are bound to any type of leasing, right. There is a period and there is a payment that you need to honour. right. There's drawbacks, definitely, but there's also good aspects on it. So, I think it depends. And if you see, I think LCP Delta reported around 50% to 60% of homeowners would consider to pay upfront, right? At least for their heat pump. But when you bundle everything together, the sum gets bit bigger. So, I don't know, it's an interesting thing to see how this is going to evolve, right.

 

[00:16:31.680] - Jon Slowe

Sandra, you asked a question. What do you think about that risk of even if it's not an actual lock-in, a perceived or semi lock-in?

 

[00:16:40.580] - Sandra Trittin

Well, for me personally, I think I would not like to have that lock-in effect. But as Leonardo was saying as well, or Klara also, we are really interested in that topic, right. I like to search around, and I like to search for the different heat pumps and for the different inverters, et cetera. And I'm also happy to make that extra step because I'm aware of that. If I would be talking to my mum, I think for her it might be just better to get everything out of one hand and not to take care of anything. And to be honest, I also think that from a technology perspective, and this might be something that the manufacturers do not really like to hear, but there is not really a bad heat pump anymore, for sure. They differentiate in terms of setup, in terms of capacity, in terms of few differentiation factors, but in the end they all make secure that you have a heated home, and you have a hot shower, because otherwise no one is going to buy your product. So, for my mum, this kind of in depth differentiation doesn't make a difference. She doesn't care if the heap pump comes from A, B or C at the end, it's more important what it delivers, right?

 

[00:17:56.060] - Sandra Trittin

and there, I think this is the main customer segment we are talking to. And so, I think they don't perceive that necessarily as a login effect. They might perceive that more as a help, as a support to make their life much easier. No. And adding to that now, you also get sometimes your energy contract with it, you get your smart metre with it. So, everything is a bit like taken care of. Not sure if it really works in that way that always out that it's really taken care of until the last end. But I think we are getting there more and more and improving.

 

[00:18:30.060] - Leonardo Melo

Yeah. As I read more and more on LinkedIn, it's a funny remark. All these things are meant for retired dentists and engineers, right? All these very expensive product bundles. And I think that they are not like us, Sandra, right? They are not going to check this up and that up and this protocol, this modbus that goes SG whatever, they just want something like ease of mind. And I think one-stop-shops cater for that very nicely.

 

[00:18:58.770] - Sandra Trittin

Yeah. And then it's the installer, right, who gives in the end, the main recommendation, because all of these retired, different working profiles, also out of experience, to whom do they turn? If they need something, they turn around and they either approach the electrician or the plumber they know for the last ten years, and this is then the guy who makes, in the end, the decision. And they normally trust this person.

 

[00:19:24.540] - Jon Slowe

So, Klara, what are you seeing in the market? Because you mentioned at the beginning, companies like E.ON or Octopus, 1KOMMA5°, there's Enpal. Are you seeing more and more companies? I guess quite a range of different types of companies providing this sort of one-stop-shop experience for customers. And do they seem to be doing well? Is it gathering momentum or is it still quite new? In embryonic?

 

[00:19:52.660] - Klara Ottosson

I'd say maybe a bit of both. It's definitely quite new, maybe not quite embryonic, but when we were looking into this, we created a little timeline and we saw that kind of from late 2021, there seems to be boom might be a strong word, but definitely an uptick in companies who are increasingly profiling themselves as a type of one-stop-shop. So, like we've discussed, there are different ways that they can do this. We don't necessarily think that to be a one-stop-shop, you need to sell directly to the end-user. Like, a lot of the manufacturers will still sell, either together with an energy retailer or an installer, but there seems to be a definite kind of blurring of sector lines. So, the companies who used to sell only heating appliances are moving into PV.

 

[00:20:38.690] - Jon Slowe

And vice versa and adding energy retail as well. So, if I go to a company like Enpower, the mobility house, I can buy my EV charger, I can buy my heat pump, I can buy my solar panel, and I can buy my retail energy retail tariff as well. So, I think this is really helping to open up the wider market. And people like your mum, Sandra, who, if you can make it simple and explain really simply and clearly how it works and why they are the best people to make it work, then I imagine that's the sort of thing you have in mind when you think of your mum.

 

[00:21:20.790] - Sandra Trittin

Yeah, no, I think that's fully true. What I am having a bit more in mind as well, if I take a bit of a different perspective, is, is the business model of these one-stop-shops really sustainable? Or more, let's say, looking at how they try to make it sustainable, because selling hardware is a one-time business, then you see different kind of financial services, energy tariffs coming on top to make it a bit like a recurring business. But, yeah, for me, it's still unclear. Does the business model really work? I don't know, Klara, what your point of view is on that from the research perspective?

 

[00:22:09.940] - Klara Ottosson

Well, we see kind of two ways that these companies are selling. So, the first one would be bundling, so that would know, like we were saying, the retired well off, probably energy engaged as well, who are buying the full house solution all at once. That's a very small part of the market. The other way is cross selling, so that is the more continuous journey, and, of course, that will be a more continuous revenue as well, where they sell one appliance to begin with, and then the customer comes back to either buy more products. So, let's say they start with PV, they might come back to buy a heat pump or an EV charger or something else they might get more services, optimisation, things like that. And then eventually the cycle repeats itself, right? Like there's a lifetime for these products, so they might need to get another heat pump in 15 years. So that's how it grows. But we see the opportunity for cross selling being a lot bigger than that for bundling just because of the limitations with the upfront cost. Potentially, if, like we were talking about before, leasing models become more commonplace, then that could be.

 

[00:23:20.990] - Klara Ottosson

But it still becomes a fairly steep monthly cost. If you're bundling PV heat pump and an EV charger, even if you're paying that off over 15 years, that's going to be a couple of hundred pounds or euros or more every month. So that's also going to be a barrier to some.

 

[00:23:39.380] - Jon Slowe

Still, everyone wants that recurring revenue business model, don't they, Sandra?

 

[00:23:43.580] - Sandra Trittin

Yes, I think so. We are all working on it, right?

 

[00:23:48.010] - Jon Slowe

And it's finding ways of continuing to provide value to customers year on year on year in exchange for that subscription or yearly fee or customer keeping, buying more services.

 

[00:24:02.110] - Leonardo Melo

Yeah. Don't you guys think that when you are offering long-term contracts, let's say, on a 20-year basis, I always hear that the energy market is a very ungrateful market, right? Because power prices change very rapidly and it depends on how well you did your PPAs (Power Purchase Agreements), you may put yourself into dangerous positions, right? Like it happened now, two years ago. Do you guys think there is going to be a risk in that sense when you provide a bundle also with the energy included?

 

[00:24:31.600] - Jon Slowe

I think it's about risk allocation, and I think it would be a very brave and probably foolish company that would take the energy price risk for the next ten or 20 years without having any ability to manage that. So, Yeah, I think that allocation of risk, they're probably okay to take technical and performance risk up to a point, maybe even able to take outcome risks. So, heating the home to a certain temperature, probably willing to take some of the financing risk around the repayments, because you can securitise that finance on different ways. But yeah, I think the market is still working out what balance of risks for different customer segments a customer wants to take and what risks a customer doesn't take. And commercially, what risks can be taken away from the customer.

 

[00:25:17.830] - Sandra Trittin

But this is interesting that you are mentioning that because here in Switzerland, we actually saw one business model now coming up where an importer of cars actually offers the charger, but also offers solar panels now, because they bought a solar company, and now they give you a fixed price for your excessive energy, like for your feed and tariff, and they give that, I think, for ten years or longer. Quite interesting business model, because then the risk really sits with that company. Depending on how the prices are going to change with regards to the market, there might be a likelihood that they drop, right. And then they are sitting on this additional cost. But I think some of these companies are also happy to take that risk as, let's say, marketing or market coverage cost, right, just to get the foot on the ground. But then in the long run, they might change. So, I think to that risk allocation question, it's also probably a bit of a timing question on where you are in your business model setup.

 

[00:26:24.930] - Jon Slowe

Well, it's getting to that time of the podcast where we'll need to bring out the talking new energy crystal ball. So, let's bring it out and set the dial this week to 2030. So sometime away. Leonardo, Klara, by 2030, I think we'll have seen tens, many tens of millions of heat pumps, solar panels, batteries, EV chargers sold across Europe finding their way into homes. And many households will have two or three of these types of assets. So the question for both of you, putting yourself in 2030 and looking back at the last years, how will one-stop-shops have grown and how important a role they play in decarbonising European homes? Leonardo, do you want to go first and then. Klara.

 

[00:27:16.780] - Leonardo Melo

Sure. I will give my chance. I will look into the question.

 

[00:27:19.160] - Jon Slowe

It's a tough question.

 

[00:27:20.530] - Leonardo Melo

It's a very tough question.

 

[00:27:21.920] - Leonardo Melo

Very tough question.

 

[00:27:25.870] - Leonardo Melo

I hope. And I think that one-stop-shops will grow to a very largescale, and that is already happening. I think that they will be a very interesting channel beyond the other existing channels to disseminate and to put into the market all these products that are necessary for the energy transition. I am curious to see how legacy distributors and wholesalers are going to react to this, because that's a very big chunk of the market for us as OEMs, right? So, yeah, I think. Okay, I will give a prediction. I think for a common HVAC business, they will account for, let's say, 30% of the channel sales that we can expect in our distribution channel, let's say.

 

[00:28:17.330] - Jon Slowe

Which is very big, very big, and a lot of, lot of growth over the next years in that channel. Klara, how about you?

 

[00:28:25.780] - Klara Ottosson

Yeah, well, he kind of stole my answer there a little bit.

 

[00:28:28.260] - Jon Slowe

You're allowed to think the same.

 

[00:28:30.450] - Klara Ottosson

No, I do think. I'm not going to be as brave and say an actual number, but I do think that one-stop-shops will be growing and will be taking market shares from the kind of more traditional routes to market, and that customers will increasingly be turning or getting their appliances from one-stop-shops, as opposed to kind of local installers, which is quite common today. Not meaning that local installers will not be part of the system anymore, but I think it will be different. It will be kind of being acquired by the one-stop-shops or through partnership networks, because I think the local installer will still be very important to the customer. But I do think that the bundling aspect will still be a relatively small share of the market unless someone comes up with a kind of magical business model that makes it affordable in a very interesting way.

 

[00:29:23.410] - Jon Slowe

Which I'm to bundle everything together in one go.

 

[00:29:26.680] - Klara Ottosson

Yeah, exactly. But by 2030, like you said, there will have been tens of millions of heat pumps and PV installed, and these people will be looking to instal more. So, who better to turn to than someone who successfully installed their first appliance?

 

[00:29:39.870] - Jon Slowe

Great. Well, let's see how the next years pan out with the growth and growth of one-stop-shops. Klara, Leonardo, thanks both very much. It's been great talking with you both and thanks for sharing your views. Sandra, what's your feelings after that discussion? We've talked a bit about you and your mum and how you'd behave and buy different ways.

 

[00:30:04.290] - Jon Slowe

Yeah. What's your take?

 

[00:30:05.120] - Sandra Trittin

So, I think the business model as a one-stop-shop will for sure shape our future and either by new players entering into the market and we talked a bit around them, or by existing players developing into that direction, especially bringing that consumer perspective in. So, this is, I think, a good news, because finally we think more from the consumer perspective and less from how to push our stuff into the market, right. So, this is, I think, really good. What keeps me still a bit food for thought is how will these business models be sustainable in the long run? Especially because if you are opening up your field of operations to hardware, to financing, to energy services, energy tariffs, et cetera, this is really a broad field as one company to look at, right, it's possible, but I think it gives you quite some challenges in making the PNL (Profit and Loss) as efficient as possible. So I'm looking forward to see on how the different players, which are already in the market or stepping into the market, are developing and also in the long run there will be the question on how they will differentiate from each other, because at one point in time it will be only, oh, I have the heat pump from manufacturer A, and I have the heat pump from manufacturer B, but there must be more of a differentiation.

 

[00:31:33.610] - Sandra Trittin

And I'm not sure and I'm not hoping that we are only ending up on a price battle then in the end where it's all about who can give the best price on hardware and who can give the best price on the energy bill. So there, I'm curious to see what the future will bring in terms of will there be something new or different to be different than all the other ones that are emerging now. How would you see it?

 

[00:32:00.260] - Jon Slowe

I share your thinking about the one off sale, and if your business model is purely based on a one off sale, everyone's hungry for that ongoing customer relationship and that recurring revenue stream or repeat revenue stream. And I think the market's still working out what that sort of value exchange of ongoing services in return for some recurring that ongoing relationship, that recurring revenue, that two-way value exchange, what that actually is and how it works. And it's not like there's a lot of margins to play with in this business. So yeah, I think from a customer point of view, I think one-stop-shops are fantastic and I love the way that the companies we've talked about today, mentioned today are going about their business because it's really unlocking demand. But yeah, I share your views on, I think the business model is work in progress, but it's brilliant. That is work in progress because.

 

[00:33:01.050] - Sandra Trittin

Exactly. It's exciting, right? And we are saying that so often, I think, during that podcast, but it's still true. It's an amazing area to work with, right? And it's an amazing area also on how we can shape all our energy future together. So, let's take that chance.

 

[00:33:20.990] - Jon Slowe

Okay, well, there's a rallying cry to everyone listening, whatever your role is in the energy transition. So, we hope you enjoyed the episode and look forward to welcoming you back soon. Thanks, and goodbye.

 

[00:33:33.160] - Sandra Trittin

Thank you very much. Thanks for tuning in. We are excited to bring you captivating conversations from the leading edge of Europe's energy transition. If you've got suggestions for topics or guests for future episodes, please let us know.

 

[00:33:45.950] - Jon Slowe

And if you're enjoying the podcast, then please do rate it and share it with colleagues. For show notes, transcripts and more, please visit lcpdelta.com.

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